No Gator Love From Dooley

This topic contains 28 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  PVBGator 3 weeks, 6 days ago.

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  • #44800

    I have been a reader for years and a former player. I will say this and folks can take it how they want. Pat Dooley has irritated me for a long time. I am one of 4 family members to play for the Gators. 3 football, 1 basketball. All played pro. I am deeply tied to recruiting nationally as a trainer and 7v7 director. I stay in touch with most of the SEC coaches and train 62 college and 37 NFL players at my facility. Dooley is a WRITER making his opinion. First it was Auburn now it’s LSU that he’s pumping. I’m perfectly fine with writers speaking their mind about their choices to win certain games BUT they better be fine with me speaking my mind. I’m NOT the only former Gator that thinks this about Dooley. I actually really use to like the guy and his articles. Now I’m considering not renewing. I could get the same comments he’s making from a rival team’s site/newspaper. The confidence that he has in this team irritates me. Look, they have just as good of a chance to win this game as any other. I currently have several players on this Gator team. Those kids don’t care for his comments either. I explain to them he’s “just a writer”. I just wish that writer would be more positive when it comes to big games. This staff is not the Will Muschamp staff. So win or lose this school and this staff is on a mission to straighten out what was a mess when they arrived. I’m happy with the results in just less than two years. Look around the country. This coach could have been coaching a Tennessee team and probably beating us had we brought in any of the following of Chip Kelly or Willie Taggart. I’m a longtime friend of Scott Frost and thinks he will get that program rolling but he may not have been the fit for Florida. This brings me back to today. I have confidence that Task could chew up an LSU secondary if given time and holds on to the ball. It’s college football…ANYTHING could happen. Just ask Clemson about what almost happened last week playing UNC. GO GATORS!

  • #44820

    Gator-6
    Participant

    Thank you. I’ve taken some heat myself for feeling the same way — no doubt a great writer who can turn a phrase with the best of ’em, and I don’t mind striving for objectivity at all, but this guy really does take a somewhat smarmy delight in poking a finger in Gator eyes. Well put buddy.

  • #44823

    Just remember this…nobody here pays YOUR bills, Say what you want bro. That’s not meaning to be offensive. I don’t go after posters. Not my thing. Most fans are guessing anyway. Never played the sport or played at a high school level at best. Which is fine and dandy but don’t stroke the fires of “knowledge” when you haven’t actually been there. I’ve read comments for years here but this was my first post (now second). I think for the most part there are some well-meaning fans and don’t mean any harm. They are passionate about our Gators. We want them to win. I got two calls late last night. One from Ja’Marr Chase whom I LOVE and the other from my close buddy Michael Clayton. Ja’Marr wanted to be a Gator BADLY. It was Gonzales that lost this incredible athlete. When you don’t contact a recruit and stop returning their texts and calls you lose the recruit. There are some underrated studs in our 2020 recruiting class. Seeing them at camps and having them as part of our chat groups a lot of stories circulate that are not true. Hopefully i can help diffuse some of the bs in the future. I’m just not a big poster anymore.I will say this…If the fans that post here didn’t care they wouldn’t be reading and posting. Go Gators!

    • #44828

      Gator-6
      Participant

      You ought to be posting, bud — but not many are anymore. Once in a while Cody Alan weighs in and it’s always helpful when he does. Change your screen name if you have to, but we could sure use your expertise to go along with some of the savvy posters we do have. Even with them running off most of the regulars and the small amount of comments these days, it’s still the best and easiest format around. Consider it at least.

  • #44827

    Sly Sylvester
    Participant

    Great to hear from a former player but still a very active Gator within the program post on this board. Appreciate you helping with recruiting. Mullen needs all the help he can get.

    I understand your frustration with Dooley (and probably Andreu) not being more of a homer. I don’t think they are purposely anti-Gator though. I also understand that they are first, journalists who try to maintain their journalistic objectivity. They don’t seem to be any more anti-gator than the national media and the Vegas betting odds, at least to me anyways. We’ve seemed to have lost that trust for the vast majority of journalists in the political arena which is quite disturbing. But I digress. I would hate to lose that objectivity in the sporting world. With that said, I think you would make an excellent guest on the Dooley podcast to pump up the Gators and fans. What you say?

  • #44830

    tmcurvel
    Participant

    I’m an older gator fan and went to the school in the seventy’s. I don’t post very much, but do read a lot of posts from several other sites. I kind of like coming here to read because most of the poster are older and not verbally bashing one another, the team or coaching staff. I find some very interesting information and views. I hope some of the posters do come back. As for Dooley, I have grown accustomed to his style and I probably wouldn’t want him to be a blatant homer. I don’t always agree, but I find his opinion interesting most of the time.

  • #44841

    PVBGator
    Participant

    What specifically has Dooley said that is so irritating? Is it his picks against the Gators? What are the specific quotes that have folks riled up?

  • #44848

    mtn2top
    Participant

    At least Dooley is not a professional pot stirrer like Mike Bianchi. That’s Orlando and this is Gainesville. That’s my issue.

    I am surprised sometimes at the seen-it-all attitude and perspective. After all, these guys have great access to the coaches, players and team and yet seem to have immunity for any kind of enthusiasm. With retirement months away, does it really matter? I don’t want a cheerleader writing the articles. Just a bit more of a Gator fan so I can relate to the perspective.

    I don’t get it. If it’s enthusiasm for the Gators that brings everyone to this site, why would you go negative? This is Gator sports, not the national or state news. Look how biased new sites are today. In that light, why isn’t this site more biased for the Gators?

  • #44868

    gator-sr
    Participant

    If this site was more biased for the gators and Dooley wrote all perfume and pink flowers for gatorland, who would want to read that stuff.

    • #44869

      Gator-6
      Participant

      SR, I for one have never called for Dooley to write all perfume and pink flowers for Gatorland, anymore than I want him to wear orange & blue glasses. I’ve already said what I’ve got to say here and elsewhere, but when I’ve been critical in the past, I must say those words, or words to that effect, are the most common replies I hear from others …… which of course misses my whole point since I never suggested such a thing in the first place.

  • #44882

    Let me be clear that I don’t want orange and blue goggles just a little more fair. The LSU thing pissed me off I will say. I grew up watching my cousin Wes Chandler play. Even better I grew up around Ray Graves and the Graves family as my aunt was his long-time personal assistant and spent most days with the Graves family at their home. I LOVED that family and have a lot of very fond memories and through the years stayed in touch as they moved to Tampa. Visited them there many times. My younger cousin also named Ray was named after Ray Graves. His father (my uncle) was known as “Scusky”. If you are a Gator fan from the 70’s and 80’s with Gator basketball you would recall the dancing man with the broom during half-time that became a huge hit with the media. Although I have 3 MAJOR athletes with Gator football, I won’t betray them by divulging too much info that probably shouldn’t get outside of the locker area. I will post as much as I can but not sure how long I will remain a member. As for Mike Bianchi, he’s comic relief. As for Dooley, I like the guy but if I’m irritated enough I know how to cancel my membership and not read his stuff.

    • #44993

      Joe Shiver
      Participant

      Sure would be interesting to know your identity, but I guess it’s also fun to try to guess from the clues you’ve given.

      I’ve read Pat’s articles and listened to his podcasts and radio shows for quite some time. What I gather is he was raised, if not born, in St. Augustine, has attended UF games since his childhood, graduated from UF, his youngest daughter is now a freshman at UF, and reporting on Gator sports, primarily football, is his dream job. All that screams Gator! to me.

      That means he’s been through the 70’s and 80’s when the Gators were sometimes on the rise, but never could quite reach the top. I bet he’s probably said “Wait ’til next year” more times than Carter has little pills! Heck, if you listen to his podcasts and radio shows you’ll hear him say regularly how he’s been burned too many times by getting his hopes up. It reminds me of my friend’s son, who after a particularly disappointing loss to Auburn in the early 90’s, said, “I’m never gonna root for the Gators again, because all they’ll do is break your heart!!!” Of course, he said that in the heat of passion, and he’s still as big of a Gator fan as ever. Guy’s like him and Pat deserve a little slack from the rest of us.

      Then there’s the issue of journalistic integrity and objectivity. What Pat writes is certainly his opinion, but I think it’s always honest and fair. I’ve heard him say if all the readers love him, then he’s not doing his job well. If it’s about 50/50, then he’s doing ok.

      I know a lot of people get upset when Pat picks against the Gators, but I believe his picks are his honest opinion, and besides, everyone’s allowed to be wrong occasionally. So he was wrong about Auburn. He was right about LSU and SC. He’s 7-1, and we don’t complain about the Gators being 7-1. Who among us really thought the Gators would be 8-0 at this point?

      I wouldn’t suggest that folks stop criticizing Pat. After all, it’s a right, and it is food for thought-discussion-argument-debate, which is a lot of fun. I am suggesting folks stop questioning his Gatorhood … er fanhood? … Gatorness? … oh well, you get the point.

      Go Gators!!!

  • #44891

    gatorgi70x7
    Participant

    I think Dooley tries to appear to go against Florida in his writings in order to be objective, like a few here have already stated. I think when Dooley leaves for retirement, he will be sorely missed. I just know that college sports are very difficult to predict/project upon, write about, all the while appearing to be a non-homer as a journalist in the process.
    I do think Pat Dooley is a Gator at heart, his family sure is from what he tells us. I have heard that truthful and good journalist do NOT make the story about themselves, but Dooley has clearly stated, ”It’s all about me!” And so whether Pat was joking or not, he still needs a little more ”humility” at times in his writings and podcasts, in my opinion. Because I come here (Gatorsports.com) and to local radio shows (WRUF/ESPN 98.1) to hear about Gator sports, not what Pat’s doing in his personal life.
    But his writings will be missed, if Pat chooses to retire soon. Either way, ultimately Gator fans will be Gators, and journalist should be UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE. Unless they’re ”political journalists,” of course. Because the ”battle lines have been clearly drawn” politically. So much so, that it has become very divisive and dangerously detrimental to our free country, America, who values a ”free press.”

    • #44895

      David
      Participant

      That whole “media bias” thing, that’s gas-lighting pure and simple. Either you are a victim … or a perpetrator. America has the most fair and balanced set of journalists in the world, top to bottom. I’ll even through the fox news crew in the boat there too. The danger is in the gas-lighting. Good thing the press corps understands this and will continue to do their jobs in a fair and balanced manner. It is not the messenger, its the message you don’t like.

      • #44896

        Gator-6
        Participant

        David, I have too much respect for your football comments to believe that you can actually say with a straight face that America has the most fair and balanced set of journalists in the world. Wow, that’s a mouthful buddy.

        • #44912

          Fox news contributor by chance?

          • #44916

            Gator-6
            Participant

            Far from it, FGF. Just a retired common soldier and former doctor with no redeeming social virtues, not then, not now, not ever. I watch Fox Business but not Fox News, and though not sufficiently “woke” enough to give a flying fig about offending the Chinese, I don’t mind expressing my opinions. I’m open minded, but not to the extent that my brains start to fall out. In that context, I will opine that of all the threats to this particular Constitutional Republic, a free but irresponsible press is chief among them. To put it all in proper perspective, though, GO GATORS!

  • #44982

    mtn2top
    Participant

    I like the writers here. I’ve followed and enjoyed Pat and Robbie’s articles and podcasts for a long time. They have perspective from all those years, games and pressers.

    This is the hometown newspaper and Gatorsports. How can it not be tinted a little orange and blue?

    • #44986

      Gator-6
      Participant

      Well, they do spell Gators correctly 3 times out of 4, so there is that.

  • #45001

    Gator65
    Participant

    I think the biggest gripe many would have is the negative tone of the writing. Again not that it has to be all sunny just that it appears in the writing from GS that if something good happens it certainly wasn’t by hard work and effort or deserved. If they were writing for something other than GS (GATOR SPORTS) I could understand. There are other sites that cover their teams and are objective without having a undertone of contempt, maybe dislike. Were we awful for some time? YES but whose fault was it? COACHING AND AD’s who hired the coaches. Why is that? Or how does one prove that? Last year a coach took players with a losing season to 10-3. Yes others have done it in their first year. Muschamp had a good stable on arrival. Yet coaching saw diminishing return the longer he was here. Mac (gain weight by going to Hardies) saw players better prepared when they came in as freshmen than as seasoned players. Those players that were present were coached and coached well. Yet the writers love affair with one former coach jade his current writing. Dooley and Andreu may know more of what happened behind the scenes than the fans. But I can picture the players scoffing at the writing of Gator Sports. There is much better writing elsewhere. The only thing that really GS had was a great message forum and that has turned into a ghost town. Which while earning money is important they are charging money for something that is much cheaper to deliver than a paper copy that they sell ads for. So FGF above is correct. If the company is wanting/needing revenue they should have writers that are unbiased without being damning of the team or people. Z Alboverde (spelling comes to mind) There are others that are on numerous sites that call it like it is without seeming like homers.

  • #45002

    PVBGator
    Participant

    IMO… Robbie isn’t a poet but he’s a solid beat writer. Pat is an above-average columnist, especially for a small market like Gainesville. I’m not a year-round reader (tend to follow just the football season) and in past years I was more hit-and-miss on hopping on the site, so I may have missed it, but I’m just not seeing the negativity. It was Pat who was admonishing Gator fans for going so negative for the horrible play in the Miami game. If someone is up to it, go through Pat’s archive and pull out the negativity, I’m curious to see an example of it.
    My complaint with the Sun coverage is that we don’t hear about the truly negative stuff inherent in the program until it’s safe to do so, e.g., Pat flamed McElwain in his 11/2/17 column, pulling back the curtain on a rotten culture and giving us truly, for the first time, a look at how bad things had been behind the scenes. You could say in that case he had been protective of the program! Had these issues come to light earlier, perhaps McElwain would have been forced out earlier, cutting our losses (at least the losses on field, though not the buyout).
    I’m not trying to come across as a Dooley Defender; just curious to see what’s got people riled up.

    • #45005

      StLGator
      Participant

      I happen to like Pat’s humorous writing style and look forward to reading ALL his columns. Robbie’s columns are well researched and well written. IMO, the problem is that they’re both veteran sports writer with lots of friends in the national sports media. They feel some peer pressure to avoid looking like total homers. So, their opinions are tempered by that influence.

      Recent examples of their bias against looking like Gator homers include:

      1. Pat’s ranking Michigan ahead of the Gators on his initial AP ballot despite the Gators embarrassed Michigan in the Peach Bowl and both squads returned in 2019 relatively unchanged. He’s caught A LOT of grief from Gator fans over that pick!

      2. Robbie picking Auburn to more than cover the spread against the Gators at the Swamp despite their starting a true freshman against one of the top defenses in the country.

      3. Pat’s ranking Notre Dame ahead of the Gators on his AP ballot after their loss to LSU despite the fact that ND lost to his 10th ranked UGA while the Gators gave a 3+ quarter battle to his 1st ranked LSU at night in Death Valley.

      The first two examples above fairly reflected the consensus opinion of the national sports media at the time. Pat reversed himself on the third last week by moving the Gators up and Notre Dame down on his AP ballot to match how the rest of the AP voters ranked both teams.

  • #45008

    Joe Shiver
    Participant

    I think CDM is doing a great job, and I think Pat has given him and the team appropriate credit. However, I also think the media, including Pat, and fans have given CDM a little too much credit for last season. A 10 win season after 4 wins the year before seems great on the surface, but if you really delve deeper, it isn’t as impressive as it seems at first glance.

    The 2017 team lost 9 players in the week before the opener, including its best WR and arguably its best RB. Also included were freshmen linebackers James Houston and Ventrell Miller, who were expected to provide much needed depth at the position.

    To make matters worse, the opener was against #11 Michigan, and the Gators’ QB was an inexperience redshirt freshman starting the first game of his career. The best QB on the Gators roster, Luke DelRio, was still recovering from an injury.

    Contrast that to the 2018 opener against the FCS cupcake, Charleston Southern. Franks also had a year of experience under his belt by that time. I don’t discount the tremendous work that CDM did with Franks that allowed him to make great strides last season. Mullen did a great job there. But although Franks didn’t get good coaching under Mac, he did get great experience in playing a full SEC schedule, and starting 2018 with such a pushover didn’t hurt.

    Speaking of cupcakes, the 2018 team had 3 on its schedule. In addition to Charleston Southern, there was also Colorado State and Idaho. As bad as FSU was, you could say there were 4 cupcakes. The 2017 team, thanks to Michigan and Hurricane Irma, had only one cupcake game. Add the two extra cupcake games and the 2017 team would’ve won 6 games.

    Consider the two home losses to LSU and TAMU by a combined 3 points. The Gators had every chance to win those games, and with a healthy Luke DelRio, they probably would have. That would’ve upped the 2017 win total to 8 games.

    With 8 wins in 2017, that would reduce the turnaround from 6 games to 2. But wait!! There’s more!! Eight wins would’ve gotten that team to a bowl game. A win there would shrink the turnaround from 2 games to only 1. Wow!

    I don’t mean to denigrate the great work CDM has done at UF. In a way, I’m glad the 2017 season played out as it did, because otherwise, Mullen probably wouldn’t be here. But the talent on the 2017 team was far better than 4 wins, and Mullen inherited some very good players: Franks, Trask, Perine, Scarlett, Davis, Swain, Hammond, Cleveland, Toney, Ivey, Ju.Taylor, Heggie, Forsythe, Cece Jefferson, Polite, Zuniga, Moon, Ancrum, Reese, Joseph, Houston, Miller, Henderson, Wilson, Stewart, S. Davis, Je. Taylor, Edwards and more.

    To get back to my original point about Dooley, like most fans, he’s given CDM complete credit for a 6 game turnaround that was really more like a 2 or 3 game turnaround at best. Pat has been complimentary of Mullen and the Gators when deserved and critical when he thought it was warranted. Just because we don’t like something he wrote, it doesn’t make it false. We didn’t like it when he picked LSU, but he was right. I think Pat is fair and honest in his writing, but if you don’t, by all means continue to post your criticisms. It’s your right, and it’s just that much more for us to talk about on this forum.

    Go Gators!!!

    • #45009

      Gator-6
      Participant

      Wanna say that to my face? Go on, I dare ya! 🤪

      The trouble with guys like you, Joe — and this goes for Sly and a few others of your ilk — is that you use facts and logic to come to your conclusions. Accordingly, you’re stepping all over other’s, to include my own, Constitutional right to be irrational and emotional. I’m warning you right now, Shiver…..STOP IT. Or else.

      • #45011

        Gator-6
        Participant

        AND ANOTHER THING ….. I noticed the time/date on your post as 11:43 PM last night, which is way past midnight out here in Texas. What’s an old guy like you doing up that late if you’re up to any good at all?

        • #45017

          Joe Shiver
          Participant

          Guilty. I do appreciate your concern, and you’re right. My wife told me I was staying up too late, and danged if I didn’t have to take a nap this afternoon!!

    • #45010

      PVBGator
      Participant

      Thanks StL, appreciate the examples. I agree, his ranking of Michigan ahead of UF at the start of the season was a brain cramp. Even putting the bowl beatdown aside, one could argue there was more reason than ever to put the Wolverines below UF, given that they had suffered more significant losses in the draft than we did, especially on defense. But I’ll raise the question of whether his rankings reflect an anti-Gator bias or just some head-scratching logic. Recall his decision to rank Notre Dame ahead of Georgia one week before reversing it the next — no Gator involvement there, just some “quality of loss” illogic.

      Robbie’s pick of Auburn covering the spread doesn’t strike me as crazy; we had just given up 21 points to a second-string KY quarterback, finally going ahead of them with four minutes left in the fourth quarter, and Auburn’s QB had just scorched MS State. Was it a bad pick on Robbie’s part? Sure. Was it indicative of anti-Gator bias? I don’t know, but I didn’t take it that way.

      A lot of the criticism here is about the tone of the writing, e.g, 65 calling out an “undertone of contempt” and the initiating post labeling Pat’s picks of Auburn and LSU over the Gators as the “pumping” of those respective Tigers. Ah, irony… I wonder if LSU fans would call Pat a homer for “pumping” the Gator defense as elite after the MS State and Auburn wins, only to watch LSU shred it on the ground and in the air in Baton Rouge.

      Good discussion. I’m going to peruse Pat’s articles going forward with an eye for bias. Looks like he was safe this week with the off week! And I’ll get my pick in now — UF 35, GA 24. Go Gators!

      • #45016

        StLGator
        Participant

        I don’t think I made my point clear enough. I was trying to show that if you go back to the dates when all three examples occurred you’ll see that both Pat and Robbie, in their picks and rankings, were just “going along” with the prevailing body of thought in the national sports media (as presented by ESPN) with respect to the Gators.

        There was no special animus in their bias. And, it got A LOT easier for them to be homers AFTER the Gators hung in for 3 1/2 quarters at LSU because that required a high power passing game the Gators hadn’t credibly shown the national media before then.

        BTW, Pat apologized for his ND ranking “faux pas” after the UGA and UF losses. However, he actually ranked ND ahead of BOTH UGA and UF. Now, he has them ranked behind BOTH, even though ND was idle last week!

        THAT is part of what has ticked off Gator fans. His default initial position was to rank the Gators BEHIND media darling ND, even though the Gators had the “better” loss.

  • #45018

    PVBGator
    Participant

    Roger that, StL, I see what you’re saying about bias. Agree that there was some herd mentality likely influencing those rankings. What caught my attention in this thread — not your comments but others — are the suggestions of animus, namely that A) Pat’s coverage reflects his contempt / dislike for the Gators; B) he delights in irritating Gator fans; and, C) he should be more positive in his picks. A and B, I haven’t seen, but maybe I’ve missed; that’s why I asked for examples. The rankings / picks may have been reflective of faulty logic or lazy thinking or, as you noted, group think, but I don’t equate them with hostility for this program or its fans. As for C, I don’t give a crap whether he’s positive. I value (and therefore I pay) for this views as an independent thinker. He shouldn’t be the literary equivalent of Mick Huber, and I’m glad he’s not. And for the record, I love Mick. But there’s a big difference between the two — Mick is a UF employee, Pat is not. So that’s where I’m coming from.
    Cheers,
    PVB

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